"This Is My Birthday Gift" -- Robert's Incredible Prison Pen Pal Update

00:00:00,100 --> 00:00:08,900 [Announcer]
[music] From the PenPals.buzz corporate headquarters in Northern California, right next to the abandoned beauty salon, it's the "Prison Pen Pal Podcast." It is about time. [echoes] Hear stories from real inmates who want to write to you, from free world people who enjoy writing prisoners, and for just about anyone involved in the world of prison pen pals. On today's episode... 

00:00:26,320 --> 00:00:36,360 [Robert]
She was at her lowest, and then someone like me was able to bring her up. And I was like, "You getting out. You deserve it. You about to go to the parole board, and you about to get out. This is your time. This is your time." 

00:00:36,420 --> 00:00:41,220 [Announcer]
Now, here's your host of the "Prison Pen Pal Podcast," [echoes] Big Steve. 

00:00:41,280 --> 00:01:00,400 [Big Steve]
So, we have this guy, Robert, in Illinois. And he was on the show towards the beginning of this year, 2026. It's been a while since we've talked to him. He has been calling Daisy every morning for the last few weeks, and he keeps asking for me. And for whatever reason, I'm not in the office when he calls. 

00:01:01,600 --> 00:01:07,180 [Big Steve]
Sometimes I hadn't gotten here yet, or I had gotten here and then I went to breakfast and then he called, or 

00:01:08,440 --> 00:01:10,860 [Big Steve]
I was out in the car. It's just like every time he'd call, 

00:01:12,000 --> 00:02:03,560 [Big Steve]
I was not available. And so, each time he would leave a message with Daisy, and he would say, "I have really good news. I want to share it with Big Steve." And so she'd take the message, and I'd always ask Daisy, "Did he tell you? Did you ask him what the good news is?" "No, he didn't say." And I think she said she asked him, and he just said it's really good news and he wants to share it. He can't wait to share the good news. And it's just like we're pulling our hair out because I'm like, "I want to know what this good news is from Robert in Illinois, who was a past guest on the 'Prison Pen Pal Podcast.'" And finally, praise the Lord, finally, today, right here in the "Prison Pen Pal Podcast" studios, [chuckles] we've got Robert on the line, calling with some updates on what his life's been like since meeting some more pen pals on PenPals.buzz. Robert, we tried to email you back, but I'm guessing you didn't get the email. 

00:02:03,700 --> 00:02:09,360 [Robert]
No, I did not get it. And every time I called, it was like you was almost there. Like, someone would always pick up at the time I called- 

00:02:09,360 --> 00:02:09,699 [Big Steve]
[chuckles] 

00:02:09,699 --> 00:02:11,580 [Robert]
... and I knew, and they'd be like, "Call in another hour or two." 

00:02:11,580 --> 00:02:12,100 [Big Steve]
[laughs] 

00:02:12,120 --> 00:02:13,560 [Robert]
So, I'm so happy you called, man. 

00:02:13,660 --> 00:02:13,820 [Big Steve]
Oh, man. 

00:02:13,820 --> 00:02:15,620 [Robert]
I'm so excited. You made my day. 

00:02:15,740 --> 00:02:20,720 [Big Steve]
Oh, good. No, I was so curious. I was like, "What this good news could be." 

00:02:20,880 --> 00:02:33,040 [Robert]
Like I said, I've been still keeping up with you and things, and I just wanted to come through. One of the things I wanted to do, the good news is, to just tell you, man, I'm still on that path of doing God work. It's getting better, man. It's getting bigger than I ever imagined. 

00:02:33,060 --> 00:02:33,520 [Big Steve]
Oh, yeah. 

00:02:33,540 --> 00:02:48,720 [Robert]
And then one of the good news that I had to share with you is, one of your pen pals that did 34 years got out, and I've been her pen pal, and her name is Lenore, and she's 69, and she's on your site. She went for parole in August, and she got parole after she'd been down for 1992. 

00:02:48,900 --> 00:02:49,120 [Big Steve]
Oh, geez. 

00:02:49,120 --> 00:02:53,180 [Robert]
So, one of the oldest lady on your pen pal, she's 69, and I've been her pen pal going 

00:02:54,200 --> 00:03:12,540 [Robert]
on six, seven months, because it was in March. So, we've been going on five, six months, and she get out. And she got parole. She went off the board. They gave it to her. She's 69, so she's supposed to be getting released in November or December. And then it was so powerful, as I watched on one of your other podcasts, the brother that been down since he was like 16. 

00:03:12,660 --> 00:03:13,020 [Big Steve]
Right, yeah. 

00:03:13,020 --> 00:03:13,880 [Robert]
And then he got caught when he was 

00:03:15,020 --> 00:03:30,280 [Robert]
18. That was so powerful because the news that I have to share with you, it was another guy that did 34 years. So I feel like the testimony that God worked, it can give other people faith, encouragement, and just show them that even in the dark when you did 30 years, 25 years, you still can see the light. 

00:03:30,680 --> 00:03:30,700 [Big Steve]
Yeah. 

00:03:30,960 --> 00:03:37,180 [Robert]
And it's so powerful because, like you say, you don't look for the appearance, you look for the inside of that woman. And I'm going to tell you the truth, that 

00:03:38,220 --> 00:03:51,560 [Robert]
69-year-old woman inspired me. She gave me so much positivity, so much encouragement, so much faith. And then, you know one of the things she told me? She said, "I needed these 34 years." When the last conversation between when she got parole, she's like, "Baby, I don't think I was ready to go home after five years." You know? 

00:03:52,020 --> 00:03:52,120 [Big Steve]
Right, yeah. 

00:03:52,120 --> 00:04:06,380 [Robert]
She's like, "I needed this time. I needed it. I was still mad." And I was so thankful because when you go into this scenery, you got to go in with the right mindset. You got to go in with your intentions. If your intention's not right, you're going to miss what God's trying to show you. 

00:04:07,900 --> 00:04:11,720 [Robert]
Like we talk about, it ain't always romantic partners. And then it's some more good news. It's getting better and better. 

00:04:11,800 --> 00:04:12,120 [Big Steve]
Oh, man. 

00:04:12,120 --> 00:04:41,640 [Robert]
It's getting better, I promise you. And I got to salute you because I would never been able to... They gave me strength to be doing what we both doing God work, helping people behind the walls, nursing homes, all that type of field is godly. So, moral of the story is, that woman, if my mind wasn't in the right space, I would've been like, "She an old woman. You know what I mean? I'm looking for her looks. I want this and third." People miss what it is, and now she getting out, and they won't get the opportunity that God shared with me. So now, as I'm moving forward in my journey, when people tell me they got 20 years, I be like, "Okay, I know somebody that did 34." 

00:04:41,800 --> 00:04:42,060 [Big Steve]
Right, yeah. 

00:04:42,060 --> 00:04:42,740 [Robert]
And it's a woman. 

00:04:43,040 --> 00:04:43,100 [Big Steve]
Yeah. 

00:04:43,940 --> 00:05:01,600 [Robert]
So it uplifted my faith, and I would never met her if you never had your platform. Look, I'm a lot stronger. I'm a lot stronger because I seen someone do 34 years. I'm talking about she was so grateful. She was like, "Baby, I'm grateful. It's too hard out there. Y'all got to pay too many bills for me." Like, she was positive, man. You get off the phone with her, you feel like you could take on the world. 

00:05:01,680 --> 00:05:02,080 [Big Steve]
Uh-huh. 

00:05:02,260 --> 00:05:07,600 [Robert]
I get off the phone with her, I'm like, "Man, she been down 34 years. If she can do it, I can do it." It's the energy, man, of strength. 

00:05:07,900 --> 00:05:08,060 [Big Steve]
Yeah. 

00:05:08,140 --> 00:05:19,540 [Robert]
Because we all fall short. We all. But to have that mental strength, man, they can do it, we can do it. And that's what it's about. It ain't just you helping them. They helping you too in so many ways. But you got to know what you looking for and what 

00:05:20,620 --> 00:05:22,500 [Robert]
your intentions and your purpose in their life. 

00:05:22,540 --> 00:05:42,380 [Big Steve]
That's such a key point, is that they can help you, because everybody wants to say, "Oh, I'm going to help this inmate, and I'm going to do all these things to help." But a lot of times, the person outside of prison gets help more than the inmate does in a lot of situations, because a lot of the people that decide to write to someone incarcerated, they're going through a lot of really bad things in life, whether that's a divorce- 

00:05:42,520 --> 00:05:42,840 [Robert]
Yes 

00:05:42,840 --> 00:06:07,484 [Big Steve]
... or a death of a loved one, or whatever, losing a job, whatever it might be. And they're reaching out just out of hope that someone will listen and care. So, I think both sides can really get helped. And I think with you, man, you said it best. I mean, if things aren't going well a certain day, if something goes wrong, you can think, "Lenore had the strength to get through this, and if she can do it, I can do it." And that kind of mentality goes a long way. 

00:06:07,504 --> 00:06:31,864 [Robert]
You played a big role into my faith, my strength, the positive energy. Man, that older woman, man, 69 years old. You know, I work at a nurse home, so I was like, "Yeah, this is the person for me." 69, you out of them games. You played games. You manipulated, you got over on people. You passed that. And that's what I was seeking and looking for in her, and she had everything that I was seeking and looking for, and it been a blessing. And I tell her, even if we don't talk when she get out, man, she did her purpose with me. 

00:06:32,824 --> 00:06:50,404 [Big Steve]
So when I was locked up, Robert, I got all kinds of people that wrote me. Most of them weren't romantic. I'd say 95%, it was nothing even like that. But you mentioned the 69-year-old, and I had a 69-year-old woman who, her name was Karen, and she lived up near Seattle, and she was writing me. 

00:06:50,424 --> 00:06:50,424 [Robert]
Yeah. 

00:06:50,424 --> 00:06:52,964 [Big Steve]
And at the time, I was in my early 30s. 

00:06:54,184 --> 00:07:15,124 [Big Steve]
And so a lot of the guys in there, they're saying, "Big Steve, what the hell, man? Are you sicko or what? Why are you writing this old lady? You getting sexy pictures from her? What the hell is your problem, you sick..." And people have such a hard time understanding that, to me, that's the true value of a platform like this is- 

00:07:15,684 --> 00:07:15,784 [Robert]
Yeah 

00:07:15,784 --> 00:07:23,924 [Big Steve]
... it's not for the little flings you might have, or it's not even if you meet someone who eventually becomes your wife. That's great if that happens, but- 

00:07:24,504 --> 00:07:24,504 [Robert]
Yeah 

00:07:24,504 --> 00:07:30,644 [Big Steve]
... 90% of the value is meeting these people with different perspectives. And I mean- 

00:07:30,704 --> 00:07:31,164 [Robert]
Yes 

00:07:31,164 --> 00:07:47,544 [Big Steve]
... I met men, I met women, I met old people. There was a 19-year-old girl that was shoplifting all the time, and she wanted me to help her learn not to shoplift. She couldn't help herself, and that was kind of weird. She had this good family, and she was a college student and smart. And she wrote to me- 

00:07:47,604 --> 00:07:47,604 [Robert]
Yes 

00:07:47,604 --> 00:07:56,564 [Big Steve]
... and was like, "I don't want to end up where you are. Can you help me?" And it wasn't like, I'm not thinking like, "Oh, maybe she'll become my girlfriend." That's just not what you think. 

00:07:56,704 --> 00:07:56,764 [Robert]
Yeah. 

00:07:56,764 --> 00:08:10,824 [Big Steve]
I want to push that so hard because so many people, they think we're a dating site. They think it's all about dating and hookups, and a lot of people think that's bad, like, "Why are you giving inmates these hookup sites?" And it's just so much more to it. 

00:08:11,044 --> 00:08:17,504 [Robert]
Big Steve, right when you put on the site, I reached out to her the same day. She met me the same day she put on there. The same day. 

00:08:17,564 --> 00:08:24,504 [Big Steve]
This is just so important, just to let people see the value is so much more than love. [chuckles] So much more than- 

00:08:24,564 --> 00:08:24,924 [Robert]
Yes, yes 

00:08:24,924 --> 00:08:25,944 [Big Steve]
... romantic love, at least. 

00:08:26,444 --> 00:08:39,244 [Robert]
And she sent me cards. Before I sent her cards, man, she was like, you know how people be like, "They not sending, they looking for..." She was sending me cards because they wouldn't allow me to send her cards once upon a time. And now I'm able to send cards, but she was sending me cards because I'm like, "It ain't letting me." It ain't letting me purchase the cards. 

00:08:39,304 --> 00:08:39,384 [Big Steve]
Yeah. 

00:08:39,384 --> 00:08:49,584 [Robert]
And she was sending me cards. And then when I finally was able to send her, but she was always trying to uplift me. She was like, "Baby, I'm past this. I'm 69 years old. I just want to see the beach." She been down since I was born, 1992. 

00:08:49,844 --> 00:08:50,144 [Big Steve]
Wow. 

00:08:50,144 --> 00:09:09,144 [Robert]
[chuckles] You know? So she had so much to offer to me, and she was one of the realest ones I met. She was at her lowest, and someone like me was able to bring her up. And I'm like, "You getting out. You deserve it. You about to go to the parole board, and you about to get out. This is your time. This is your time." She's like, "You right, this is my time." Then she called me, and my birthday next Thursday, Steve. I'll be 28. 

00:09:09,224 --> 00:09:24,264 [Big Steve]
That's a good age to be looking forward to, man. Once you hit, well, 38, still pretty good. 48, eh. Then you get into your 50s, and it's like, "Ugh." When you get in your 50s, you need someone like Robert to inspire you that it's not so bad. 

00:09:24,264 --> 00:09:34,484 [Robert]
[laughing] Hey, thank you so much. And I thank God. Like I said, this is my purpose. I'm so proud of you, and sometimes I still keep up with you. You know I do that. 

00:09:34,544 --> 00:09:34,724 [Big Steve]
Yeah. 

00:09:35,024 --> 00:09:53,544 [Robert]
The thing is, I just want to always pour inside your cup, even if I just call and say, "Steve, I'm proud of you," because you are doing it. And sometimes I can feel your energy too. Sometimes you be like, "Man, I'm doing the right things. I'm in the right fields." You know, the guy that was with his girl, then later down the line, they end up separating. The girl that told him she was having a baby. Playing all these games- 

00:09:53,664 --> 00:09:53,904 [Big Steve]
Yeah 

00:09:53,904 --> 00:10:13,924 [Robert]
... then later down the line. In that interview, you was feeling sympathy for him because you like, "Is I'm doing the right thing?" You doing the right thing, Steve. One life at a time. You can't save everybody. And another thing that I want to share with you, as humans, we have to understand there's a time and a place for everything. Sometimes people just in your life for the season. As humans, we get attached to people. That's something that we have to work on. 

00:10:15,584 --> 00:10:16,044 [Big Steve]
Right, yeah. 

00:10:16,584 --> 00:10:23,824 [Robert]
Like the therapist said, she said, "When a person come to you, they got to be working on they self. If you not working on yourself, you going to bring chaos and trauma to me." 

00:10:25,144 --> 00:10:29,844 [Robert]
So it's like we all have to be working on ourself, and I feel like the work I done on myself, I could be a blessing to people now. 

00:10:29,844 --> 00:10:29,984 [Big Steve]
No, definitely. 

00:10:29,984 --> 00:10:48,584 [Robert]
So many people that is coming around with baggage and negativity and trauma, bonding with trauma and things like that. I'm healed. You talking to a healed man. I've been in the dark. I've been in a dark place before you met me. And then later down the line, God healed me, and I started studying psychology, neuroscience. I'm pretty intelligent. 

00:10:48,644 --> 00:10:49,304 [Big Steve]
Man. Yeah. 

00:10:49,304 --> 00:10:50,244 [Robert]
I'm not the average Joe that- 

00:10:50,324 --> 00:10:55,064 [Big Steve]
And you're working at that nursing home still, is that right? 

00:10:55,884 --> 00:10:57,444 [Robert]
Yes. Yeah, because that's my dream too. 

00:10:57,884 --> 00:11:06,564 [Big Steve]
So, I mean, you're helping people physically, you're helping people mentally. You're just helping them in all possible facets of life, right? 

00:11:06,804 --> 00:11:07,044 [Robert]
Yes. 

00:11:07,064 --> 00:11:20,304 [Big Steve]
And the people, I've seen some pictures back when you did the first show with us at the nursing home, and you sent me a bunch of pictures with some of the residents there, and you're having a good time with them and smiling and taking selfies with them. 

00:11:20,704 --> 00:11:20,724 [Robert]
Yeah. 

00:11:20,724 --> 00:11:22,104 [Big Steve]
And I could see them smiling. 

00:11:22,344 --> 00:11:22,364 [Robert]
Yeah. 

00:11:22,364 --> 00:11:28,404 [Big Steve]
They're smiling with you, and it's like, you know what? He's not just changing their bandages or whatever it might be, but you're giving them- 

00:11:28,444 --> 00:11:28,984 [Robert]
Yeah 

00:11:28,984 --> 00:11:32,604 [Big Steve]
... you're giving them a reason to say, "I'm excited to wake up tomorrow." 

00:11:32,604 --> 00:12:11,704 [Robert]
Yes, sir. Thank you. Thank you so much. I've been thinking about you. I've been like, "I got to tell Big Steve this. I have to talk to him," because you doing an amazing job, Big Steve. Never let that thought process get inside your mind and think that you ain't doing good work or you ain't changing lives. Your heart is so good that you want everybody to get a chance to meet an individual. You want everybody to be like, "I've been on here and I met somebody off." You want connections to still look down the line and be like, "You still talking to that person a year, two months?" But people got to realize, like you said, it is a privilege to waste your time. I ain't saying nobody playing with your time, but you got to thank God for the needy greedy. You woke up, and even if the relationship didn't work out the way you wanted it, at least you look up and that person two years went down. Now you got to do 10 more. You got to do five more. I know it's- 

00:12:12,024 --> 00:12:12,824 [Big Steve]
Yeah 

00:12:12,824 --> 00:12:13,344 [Robert]
... hard to say- 

00:12:13,764 --> 00:12:13,824 [Big Steve]
Yeah 

00:12:13,824 --> 00:12:15,324 [Robert]
... but it's a blessing in everything. 

00:12:15,384 --> 00:12:15,564 [Big Steve]
That's what- 

00:12:15,564 --> 00:12:16,544 [Robert]
You doing amazing work. 

00:12:17,124 --> 00:12:27,628 [Big Steve]
Sometimes just the hope, man. Sometimes you don't need the actual event you're hoping for, but like you said, just having that hope- It gets you going for a few more years, especially like with- 

00:12:27,728 --> 00:12:27,728 [Robert]
Yes 

00:12:27,728 --> 00:12:44,388 [Big Steve]
... with appeal processes. And I remember I had multiple appeals, and I'm waiting. And so you're waiting two years, three years, and you say, "Okay, the appeal, maybe I'll get out. Maybe I'll win the appeal." Then three years comes, you don't win the appeal, but now you have the next appeal to do, so you have more time to- 

00:12:44,488 --> 00:12:44,548 [Robert]
Yeah 

00:12:44,548 --> 00:12:44,928 [Big Steve]
... cope. 

00:12:46,268 --> 00:13:17,048 [Big Steve]
And now you've already done so much of your sentence that it's like by the time... You just can't ever lose that hope, even if it doesn't come to fruition. And I think you mentioned with attachments, the problem that I see so much with this side, and we have tons of, and I'm so glad you shared your story with Lenore. And I mean, we have positive stories that do hold for long term. But I see so many times this problem with attachment where when you're not, 

00:13:18,248 --> 00:13:20,748 [Big Steve]
what'd you say, healed or whatever the term you used, when you're not- 

00:13:20,788 --> 00:13:20,788 [Robert]
Yes 

00:13:20,788 --> 00:13:48,508 [Big Steve]
... rehabilitated, when you haven't done the therapy, when you haven't worked on yourself, there's a tendency for people in these situations where there's someone in prison and someone not in prison, and there's this attachment issue that comes up where you're attached to the fantasy of what might be. You're attached to a dream of what could be, what might happen. You're thinking, "Okay, they're going to get out. We're going to get married. We're going to have kids. We're going to have this great house on the river, and we're going to do..." 

00:13:48,888 --> 00:13:49,048 [Robert]
Yeah. 

00:13:49,048 --> 00:14:15,528 [Big Steve]
And so you become attached to this fantasy world that really isn't real, and then the person does get out, and then that's where it becomes tricky because you're thinking, "Wait a minute, this isn't the way I perceived it." And so your brain kind of gets stuck between, "Am I really in love with this person? Am I really in love with Michelle or whoever it is, or am I in love with what I thought my life was going to become in my little fantasy?" 

00:14:15,568 --> 00:14:15,588 [Robert]
Yeah. 

00:14:15,588 --> 00:14:41,508 [Big Steve]
So I think not to discount any of the good stuff you're sharing. I hope people can think of this when someone's love bombing somebody in prison or vice versa, and they're getting tons of compliments all the time and tons of attention. Just think, is it really this person that I'm into, or is it just the attention that I'm liking right now? And I think if you can just take a step back and be careful, not rush into things. People rush into stuff- 

00:14:41,608 --> 00:14:41,868 [Robert]
Yes 

00:14:41,868 --> 00:14:50,588 [Big Steve]
... because you get lonely in there. I don't want to say desperate, but you get a little desperate because you're stuck in a room with a bunch of dudes, and you're thinking, "Man- 

00:14:51,088 --> 00:14:51,148 [Robert]
Yes 

00:14:51,148 --> 00:15:06,628 [Big Steve]
... just any woman, any woman at all, just talk to me." And then you have a tendency to jump. Sort of like me in high school, you'll go out with anyone that likes you. [chuckles] You'll ask everybody out till somebody says yes. [laughing] But that's not good for longevity. 

00:15:07,308 --> 00:15:13,088 [Robert]
Okay, so I got another pen pal too, since March. Good connection. Ain't no love bombing, ain't no games. 

00:15:13,148 --> 00:15:13,228 [Big Steve]
Right. 

00:15:13,228 --> 00:15:16,548 [Robert]
Ain't no, "Hey, I want to be with you." And it's so powerful because she like, "Oh, Rob," 

00:15:17,728 --> 00:15:28,648 [Robert]
telling me about she have sex problems, basically want to not have sex. And I told her, "I'm celibate." So I feel like she added to my journey to encourage me to continue that path. 

00:15:28,688 --> 00:15:29,108 [Big Steve]
Mm-hmm. 

00:15:29,268 --> 00:15:36,388 [Robert]
Because we don't have no phone sex, none of them games, none of them phone sex, none of that. That's off limit. We don't do none of that. 

00:15:36,548 --> 00:15:36,728 [Big Steve]
That sounds- 

00:15:36,728 --> 00:15:38,188 [Robert]
So we already became an adult. 

00:15:38,188 --> 00:15:41,288 [Big Steve]
That sounds awful, Robert. How do you do this? I can't imagine. 

00:15:41,288 --> 00:15:48,708 [Robert]
[laughing] You know what? I try my best, and I know that's a bigger purpose behind me. [both laughing] You so funny, Steve. 

00:15:48,868 --> 00:15:49,588 [Big Steve]
I'm just playing with you, man. 

00:15:49,648 --> 00:15:53,488 [Robert]
I know you are, for real. When people come into this, start slow. 

00:15:53,948 --> 00:15:53,988 [Big Steve]
Yeah. 

00:15:53,988 --> 00:16:05,848 [Robert]
It's no rush to no romantic relationship. It ain't nothing about that. Just enjoy the time with each other. No matter what, if something made you happy, don't regret it. No matter how it went, it made you happy for that time period. 

00:16:05,868 --> 00:16:05,908 [Big Steve]
Mm-hmm. 

00:16:05,908 --> 00:16:07,708 [Robert]
You had something to smile about. You had something to laugh about. 

00:16:08,108 --> 00:16:30,308 [Big Steve]
How cool would it be if you went on to penpals.buzz and then you're browsing through, and every inmate, kind of like an Amazon product rating, there's a rating beneath each one. And [clears throat] we could use you, Robert. I'm thinking if you could talk to all 2,000 inmates, you could ascertain whether they're manipulating or trying to get money. And then we could say, like- 

00:16:30,388 --> 00:16:30,468 [Robert]
Yeah 

00:16:30,468 --> 00:16:32,788 [Big Steve]
... "Approved by Robert," like a stamp at the bottom. 

00:16:32,788 --> 00:16:33,328 [Robert]
Oh. [laughing] 

00:16:33,328 --> 00:16:33,828 [Big Steve]
Approved. 

00:16:36,008 --> 00:16:42,067 [Big Steve]
Or manipulative, avoid this one. [laughing] That would be... I've always thought, man, because people don't know. 

00:16:42,088 --> 00:16:42,627 [Robert]
You might be. 

00:16:43,187 --> 00:17:01,708 [Big Steve]
You see a picture, and some of the profiles, they'll say, "I don't want your money. I'm not here to play games with you." But then when you call them, they're like, "Hey, can you send me some money?" So you don't know really from the profile, but it always takes a little time of getting to know somebody and, like you said, knowing what's in their heart and their soul. 

00:17:02,068 --> 00:18:00,928 [Robert]
It's so amazing, Steve, because this the one that... Go back to your site when you say sometimes people don't choose high-level crimes. Not even for that, just to stand and just to get that. We want short-time people. We want people that did this. But what if you really get the perspective, what they upbringing was, what they been through? What made you do this? What made you kill that kid? And I feel like this, once you believe in God and you know that God in the mix of anything, what's meant to be going to be. You can't force nothing in this world. And I'm way past forcing relationship, connection, families, anything. And you chose this, Steve. You're the chosen one in God's eyes because you're the 1%. The 1%, you know how many people that don't get out and be with their wife and have a platform and doing what you're doing? And I talk about this to the inmate. You know what I mean? I talk to them, and I tell them about that. I'm like, "Man, that guy done 11 years, and he doing it. Like, he successful, and he doing everything that somebody will want to do if they got out." He doing it, but it's God grace because you changed your life around, Steve. You changed your life around, and that's why you met your wife. You know how many people that be talking to somebody in prison and never get out and be with them? You the one. 

00:18:01,128 --> 00:18:01,908 [Big Steve]
Right, yeah. 

00:18:01,908 --> 00:18:11,948 [Robert]
You the one because you real, and you sincere, and you really care about people. You could feel in any interview, anytime you get on a platform, you hear you, you could feel that you sincerely care, and you amazing at what you doing. 

00:18:11,968 --> 00:18:12,548 [Big Steve]
Oh, thanks, man. Thanks. 

00:18:12,548 --> 00:18:19,028 [Robert]
Never let the devil get inside your mind and disturb you to be like, "I'm not doing enough," or, "This ain't what I thought." Man, you supposed to be here. 

00:18:19,288 --> 00:18:19,568 [Big Steve]
I just- 

00:18:19,588 --> 00:18:20,808 [Robert]
I probably supposed to be here. 

00:18:21,328 --> 00:18:38,978 [Big Steve]
I just want people to see the full picture. I think when you're looking at a crime, you're looking at a conviction, you're looking at a sentencing on TV, you only see that bad stuff. And yeah, I get it. Some people have a lot of bad stuff, and there are some bad people. I get it. 

00:18:40,418 --> 00:18:44,558 [Big Steve]
Not everybody locked up is just a really good guy. There's some bad ones. 

00:18:44,558 --> 00:18:44,818 [Robert]
Yeah. 

00:18:44,838 --> 00:18:51,298 [Big Steve]
Yeah. I mean, I'll admit that. But I think the majority of them have a lot of good to give. And so, 

00:18:52,558 --> 00:18:58,938 [Big Steve]
I've had people on death row, as you probably know. I've had death row inmates interviewed on here. 

00:18:58,978 --> 00:18:59,018 [Robert]
Yeah. 

00:18:59,018 --> 00:19:03,978 [Big Steve]
I've had lots of people that have murdered more than one. We just had, if you remember, a guy- 

00:19:04,178 --> 00:19:05,038 [Robert]
A serial killer 

00:19:05,038 --> 00:19:24,678 [Big Steve]
... that there was William Leverett who stabbed a woman on a jogging trail. He was in Connecticut, and this was back maybe a year and a half ago we had him on. But we just heard from him that he met his future wife. They're about to get married. She comes and visits him now. And- 

00:19:24,978 --> 00:19:25,338 [Robert]
Yes 

00:19:25,338 --> 00:20:06,318 [Big Steve]
... and he wanted to take his profile down, and he asked if we could transfer his membership to his cellmate because he wanted his cellmate to have the same opportunity that he had. And I was thinking, like, you tell somebody... I mean, I go home and I tell my family, "Hey, I talked to this guy that stabbed a woman to death on a jogging trail, and yeah, he's a real nice guy." And then people hear that and they're like, "Are you freaking crazy?" Like, it doesn't make sense, right? People hear that and they think I'm just out of my mind. And I'm not trying to say, "This is the guy you should bring home to mom," or whatever. I just want people to hear the whole story. I want people to hear the childhood. I want people to hear, 

00:20:07,478 --> 00:20:25,618 [Big Steve]
like you said, why somebody did this in their life, why these things happened, whether it's abuse, whether it's trauma, whether it's mental health, as we had a couple weeks ago, whatever the case may be. There's always another reason. Somebody doesn't wake up and just say, "I'm going to kill my kid today." That's not how it goes. You have- 

00:20:25,758 --> 00:20:26,178 [Robert]
Yes 

00:20:26,178 --> 00:20:43,798 [Big Steve]
... reasons, and it doesn't excuse what they did, but I think it's helpful before everyone starts to judge like, "Oh, he's a piece of crap because he did that." Look at the rest of the book, man. Look at everything. I mean, I'm sure you've done some things in your life, Robert, and I know I have. [chuckling] We've all done things where- 

00:20:44,038 --> 00:20:44,298 [Robert]
Yes, sir. I have been done 

00:20:44,298 --> 00:21:15,598 [Big Steve]
... if someone looks at that one thing and they could judge you and say, "Oh, Robert's this really bad guy," but then they hear what you're doing here to help everybody and the spirit that you're giving and the positivity, sharing your love of God and all that. And then it's like, "Okay, maybe Robert's not so bad." You just got to look at the whole picture, not just that page. You watch a serial killer on "Dateline." They talk about what weapon was used and where the blood spatter was and all that, and rarely do you hear where he went to high school and what his hobbies were. 

00:21:15,798 --> 00:21:31,418 [Robert]
Yes. And you got to have the heart. I just thank God for the heart that we have, Big Steve. It's the heart that we have to have our perspective and our empathy for others, to put ourself in their shoes. Everybody don't have the heart that we have. You know what Noah said to me when she got on for parole? She said, "You've been my angel." 

00:21:31,638 --> 00:21:31,858 [Big Steve]
Oh. 

00:21:31,858 --> 00:21:44,938 [Robert]
I am an angel. You are an angel. We are all angels in our own ways, you know? And some of us is devils, you know? And that's the truth. Some of us is devils, some of us is angels, you know? And she said, "You are my angel." She finally realized who I was. She's like, "You've been my angel, and thank you." 

00:21:44,978 --> 00:21:44,998 [Big Steve]
Mm-hmm. 

00:21:44,998 --> 00:21:55,338 [Robert]
You know? So mission complete. Mission complete. She served me as I did my purpose. Then now when I'm talking to people behind the wall and they tell me they got 20 years or they got to do this, I'm feeling sympathy, but I'm going to still motivate you. 

00:21:55,478 --> 00:21:55,598 [Big Steve]
Yeah. 

00:21:55,598 --> 00:22:03,638 [Robert]
I got more motivation to be like, "Okay, you got 25 years. I just talked to somebody that did 34. You could get parole. You could get out of there. No matter how old you is, you still going to get out." 

00:22:03,658 --> 00:22:03,678 [Big Steve]
Uh-huh. 

00:22:03,678 --> 00:22:07,738 [Robert]
And I know that. I've seen it happen. She's 69. She been down since 32, 33. 

00:22:07,738 --> 00:22:07,818 [Big Steve]
Man. 

00:22:07,818 --> 00:22:09,498 [Robert]
Come on. Then she's 70 years old. 

00:22:09,498 --> 00:22:09,978 [Big Steve]
Man. 

00:22:09,978 --> 00:22:13,538 [Robert]
And then all the time, look, Steve, all the times that we been on, before 

00:22:14,698 --> 00:22:29,578 [Robert]
I came in, she kept getting denied for her appeal, you know? Kept getting declined. Every time she going for the parole board, they kept just saying no. She been there 20 years, still saying no. And then I come in her life and she like, "Yeah, I'm going for parole around August." I'm like, "My birthday around August. This is my birthday gift. God must allow me to see this." 

00:22:29,618 --> 00:22:29,658 [Big Steve]
Mm-hmm. 

00:22:29,658 --> 00:22:45,318 [Robert]
You know? Like, I really wanted this. I said, "I really want this for my gift, God." Like, I ain't want no material. I don't care about money. I don't care about nothing. "God, let me see what I really want to see. Show me that it's possible that you can make this happen." And I got my gift. Like, that's my birthday gift. So now I did that time with her, you know? We did that time together. 

00:22:46,178 --> 00:22:57,318 [Big Steve]
Yeah, that's so amazing. I hope if you talk to her next, just ask her if she'd be willing to call and talk to us. It would be so cool to share that story from her as well, if she'd ever be willing to. 

00:22:57,378 --> 00:22:58,238 [Robert]
Yes, yes. 

00:22:58,238 --> 00:22:59,278 [Big Steve]
But yeah, we'd love to hear from- 

00:22:59,278 --> 00:22:59,998 [Robert]
Yes, I sure will. 

00:23:00,938 --> 00:23:01,058 [Big Steve]
Yeah. 

00:23:01,058 --> 00:23:17,458 [Robert]
I sure will. I promise you. And another person that I talked to on your site, Deshawn Jackson, one of the things that stood out on his page is most men, and there's nothing wrong with it, they look for romantic partners behind the walls, you know? Or females. Nothing wrong with that because you're around so many men. 

00:23:17,678 --> 00:23:17,798 [Big Steve]
Right. 

00:23:17,918 --> 00:23:20,278 [Robert]
But he the only one that said he was looking for a mentor. 

00:23:20,718 --> 00:23:20,778 [Big Steve]
Mm-hmm. 

00:23:20,798 --> 00:23:41,678 [Robert]
That would draw my attention to Deshawn Jackson. I've been holding him down like six, seven months, and this is a brother that got 55 on him years. And he on your side. I met him on your side, and man, we keep in touch. Like, I got his back. I'm going to do the whole time with him. I'm not just leaving him. He positive, he good. He got studying psychology classes. He smart too. He real smart. Like, we be having high-level conversations. Like, we be on the phone, man. I be like, "You smarter than some people I have." 

00:23:41,778 --> 00:24:04,458 [Big Steve]
Does he ever mention... Because I'm just asking because this happened to me every time. Because when I had guys writing me, the inmates kind of look at you weird. Like, does he say that he ever gets any crap for like, "Why are you talking to some dude?" Does that ever come up in his life? Because you just got to block that if it does. I mean, you can't let these other inmates make you feel bad about what you're doing, because really, he's doing the right thing. 

00:24:04,778 --> 00:24:16,258 [Robert]
Yes, yes, yes. And you just spoke on something that he just texted me recent. He just told me... He spoke on what you just said. He said, "I'm not like them. I'm going to be myself. They want me to be like them." He just texted me, and I can send it to you of our messages. 

00:24:16,358 --> 00:24:16,438 [Big Steve]
Yeah. 

00:24:16,478 --> 00:24:19,138 [Robert]
He just sent it. He said, "I'm going to be myself. You be yourself out there." You know? 

00:24:19,178 --> 00:24:19,398 [Big Steve]
Yeah, yeah. 

00:24:19,418 --> 00:24:28,038 [Robert]
Like he just said something positive to me like, "Hey, we chosen. We kings," you know? "They want me to be like them, but we the real." You know, basically saying that, "I'm not like these people in here, but I'm not better than them." 

00:24:28,118 --> 00:24:28,358 [Big Steve]
Right. Yeah. 

00:24:28,358 --> 00:24:38,978 [Robert]
You know? And basically saying... And one of the things that I know was so powerful too, it was a family member of his that was going through the same. He was saying, "Rob, I want you to reach out to him, encourage him. He be having some things going on." So his family even know about me. 

00:24:39,138 --> 00:24:39,338 [Big Steve]
Oh, wow. 

00:24:39,338 --> 00:24:49,074 [Robert]
You know? Like, nobody... It's bigger than that. When you feel my energy, you get on the phone and you just feel my presence, you going to be like... You just know. If you got discernment- And you can read people, you can feel me right away. I'm not 

00:24:50,254 --> 00:25:11,034 [Robert]
playing games. I'm not here to hurt nobody's feelings. I'm not here to hurt nobody. What goes around comes around. So if you do that to somebody, it'll come back to you. So you got to always remember that you could be on the other side of the fence, and ghosting people, just leaving people, it can happen to you. And sometimes you don't know how it feel to happen. So I carry myself in a way of how would I want somebody to treat me? And you got to learn to love yourself. If you don't love yourself, you won't treat nobody else good. That is what it is. 

00:25:11,454 --> 00:25:19,154 [Big Steve]
Yeah, that's exactly right. And if you don't love yourself, also you're going to be more susceptible to, like we said, the love bombing. 

00:25:20,614 --> 00:25:33,914 [Big Steve]
If you, like you said, if you didn't believe the good things that they're telling you, and then they tell you that and it makes you feel validated finally, like, "This other person validated me because they said I'm beautiful or I'm handsome," or whatever. 

00:25:34,094 --> 00:25:34,134 [Robert]
Yes. 

00:25:34,134 --> 00:26:07,854 [Big Steve]
If you don't love yourself, then you're going to have a lot more issues with getting attached to somebody that's probably not good for you, and it's just something to be watching out for. But I'm so... Man, you're like the spokesperson for PenPals.buzz now. I love it. And I also love having you on the show because we can get twice as much content in in the same 30 minutes. I talk to a lot of guys, and they're slow and talking kind of slow, and I'm trying to speed things up. But with Robert, man, we get a thousand words a minute, [Robert laughing] so it's really good. 

00:26:09,594 --> 00:26:22,654 [Big Steve]
You just have so much to share, so much info to share with the world. I got to tell you one more story before we go [chuckling] because it just popped in my head. When I had, I don't know, the peak of my pen pal experience, I probably had 

00:26:23,914 --> 00:28:07,594 [Big Steve]
50 people at a time. I had a lot of pen pals for a while, which is what got me so excited about doing this job when I got out. But sometimes I needed help remembering certain things because I didn't want to mix up a story that someone told me and accidentally repeat the story to the wrong person. So I had a notebook, and I had it organized by pen pal, and I would just write down little things. I remember Yvette Crabtree in Texas. I still remember a lot of these people. And Yvette liked Dr. Pepper a lot, right? And then I know Karen up in Washington worked at a bank. And I know that Buffy, who... I can't remember her real name. She called herself Buffy. And she was up in Ohio, and she was a hairdresser. And so I'd have this notebook filled with names and address and little tidbits about each person just to help refresh the memory. And one day, I'm getting my cell searched, and the lieutenant searches my cell and finds this notebook and confiscates it. And he calls me into the office and he says, "Steve, are you stalking people? Because this is very scary to me." [Robert chuckling] "I see this notebook with all these names and addresses and, it almost looked like some notes a serial killer would take, right? In a book, like, 'Likes Dr. Pepper. Enjoys going to the lake on Thursday.'" [both laughing] And so I had to explain to him, "I've got these pen pals and I need to keep them [chuckles] straight because sometimes you get so many letters, you don't want to offend anybody." And so he gave it back to me finally. But it's just that's the kind of thing that people assume that in that environment when there's something along those lines, and 

00:28:09,294 --> 00:28:24,254 [Big Steve]
staff at a prison, they're going to assume the worst. They're always going to assume you're bad, you're out to hurt people, and then it's kind of your job to prove them otherwise. And so I guess part of that is what I'm doing now. I'm trying to prove all the benefits and value of what we're doing here now. 

00:28:24,634 --> 00:28:41,354 [Robert]
Yes. And thank you for sharing that with me, Steve. I promise you, man, thank you so much for giving me your time, attention today, and to just be who you are. And I definitely look forward in the future coming back and just keeping up with you, giving you updates. [upbeat music] And just know that you're doing an amazing job. You're doing an amazing job, and I want you to know that deep in your heart. 

00:28:41,994 --> 00:28:42,934 [Big Steve]
Thank you so much. 

00:28:42,934 --> 00:28:43,894 [Robert]
Thank you, Big Steve. 

00:28:43,894 --> 00:28:45,034 [Big Steve]
Keep up the good work. 

00:28:45,034 --> 00:28:46,174 [Robert]
Talk to you soon, okay? 

00:28:46,234 --> 00:28:46,814 [Big Steve]
All right, buddy. 

00:28:46,814 --> 00:29:21,094 [Announcer]
[upbeat music] All right, listen up, everybody. It's lockdown time for Big Steve. Let's go! But he'll be back soon on another episode of the Prison Pen Pal Podcast. Podcast. You want to get in touch? Email the podcast at penpals.buzz. If you'd like to make a call, call 888-273-6725 or write to PO Box 456, Anderson, California 96007. [music fades]